I Can’t Breathe
Sifa Ngeze was involved in a vehicle accident in 2018. When her husband, Jean-Claude Rukundo, arrived to check on her, police pinned him to the ground with one officer's knee on his neck. Sifa and Jean-Claude reflect on this traumatizing experience in the aftermath of George Floyd's murder and the calls for police accountability.
We spoke again to Tom Engel, founder and Chair of the Criminal Trial Lawyers Association Policing Committee, about the disturbing commonality of this brutal practice and the complete lack of disciplinary action.
Content Warning
This episode contains audio recordings of graphic police misconduct from 1:29 to 2:30.
Tom Engel
Who do they pick on? Who do bullies pick on? They pick on somebody who is not going to stand up for themselves, right? Or can’t stand up for themselves.
Oumar Salifou (Host)
I’m Oumar Salifou and you are listening to Is This For Real? – Breaking The Blue Wall. A podcast project about anti-Black racism and policing in Edmonton. The voice you heard at the beginning of the show is Tom Engel. He was featured and introduced in Episode 1: Nyala. If you haven't heard episode one yet I highly recommend you listen to it before today's story. Today we will hear from Tom again but before we do, we'll hear the story of Jean-Claude Rukundo and Sifa Ngeze.
In July 2018, John-Claude was arrested in Edmonton while helping his wife after a car accident. During the arrest a police officer had Jean-Claude on his stomach with his knee on his neck. This all happened 2 years before George Floyd was murdered by police in Minnesota, but holds a scary resemblance to that situation. When he was arrested Jean-Claude told his friend to start filming the incident, and here's what he recorded.
Recording plays as Oumar describes the events.
Oumar
Two officers in the video turn John-Claude onto his stomach while trying to handcuff him and swearing at him to turn around.
Jean-Claude
You’re hurting me. I don’t do nothing. I didn’t do nothing, sir! Stop putting pressure on my back.
Oumar
While Jean-Claude was on his stomach, an officer immediately places his knee onto Jean-Claude’s neck.
Jean-Claude
I have a backpack. You take off my pressure.
Oumar
The next part of the video is Jean-Claude pleading with the officers that he's innocent, while Sifa watches the scene and cries while her husband is arrested. The video ends with that scene.
Jean-Claude
My wife!
Officer
Roll over!
Jean-Claude
I’m not trying to fight you.
Officer
Yeah, you are! You’re trying to roll over!
Jean-Claude
I’m not trying to fight you. I’m not trying to fight you. I’m not trying to fight you, sir.
Jean-Claude’s Lawyer
Did you find the place ok?
Oumar
Yeah definitely.
Oumar
To hear their story, I visited Sifa and Jean Claude at their lawyer’s office.
Sifa Ngeza
My first name is Sifa; last name is Ngeze.
Jean-Claude Rukundo
And me, my first name is Jean-Claude; last name is Rukundo.
Sifa
What happened that day was I was driving up from home going to Superstore in Kingsway. And then because there's a car accident in front of us, we had to like exit 121 Street. I went there and then I rear-ended somebody. I hit somebody at their back and then I was in a panic, it was my first car accident. I don't know much about cars, I don't know much about insurance. [Jean-Claude] deals with everything, all I do is get in my car and drive.
So when I hit that person, I was still in the car my car is still on. The guy I hit came out and then he asked me if I was okay. I'm like I don't know. He asked me to turn off my car. Even I was so scared because I imagined if I turned it off, the engine is just going to blow. He helped me turn off the engine and I got out the car. And then I called 9-1-1. Right when I got off the phone, I called my husband. He just came from work. I told him I got in a car accident. I couldn’t even speak properly. I was just crying and he told me he was going to be there right away.
Two police officers came, two cars. And then an ambulance was there already. So when they got there, my husband got there at the same time. Maybe a few minutes after he got there — they got there. Once he came, the officer asked for my drivers license and insurance. I was just sitting on the sidewalk crying. I was still shocked. My husband was the one dealing with TD to make a claim. The police officer asked him if TD covered the towing. So he had to call them again to ask if that’s covered.
While he was on the phone with TD Insurance, another cop came. Two cops. They walked to the people that I hit, asked them if they were okay, and then walked straight to my husband and asked if he was involved. My husband said “no, but my wife is. And this [the car] is my property.” The guy was so mean and so rude. He was like “okay, I am going to have to ask you to leave the scene.” While TD was talking to him my husband was still on the phone — they put him on hold for some reason. Then he asked my husband to leave if you are not involved in the car accident. My husband said “I can’t — my wife is hurt. This is my car. You know, she has nobody else.” And then he got so rude and was like ... What did he say again?
Jean-Claude
”If you don’t move for me I am going to put on an arrest.” Then I’m like “sir, I’m helping.” I was just standing there. You can even see the pictures and all that. So while those two cops walk, I thought they already have communication and know what’s going on. For me it was a little weird to see two officers dealing with her case which was fine. We were dealing with the towing, that’s when we saw those two officers drive by with lights on, smash the door, and walk through the other people involved. While I was on the phone I turned my head and the officer was just standing right there and asked if I was involved. And you could tell he was mad.
Sifa
He was mad. He wanted the answers.
Jean-Claude
He asked if I was involved and I said no. I was still on the phone. So I put the phone away and tried to answer him for respect and all that. “No sir, I’m not involved. My wife is. This is my property which is damaged, and I need to figure out the damage and towing.” The two officers were still standing in the front of the vehicle, and were trying to make a mess. So he asked me that and I couldn’t even respond. He twisted my hands — put my hands behind my back. I’m trying to get answers still, and to know why he was arresting me. Having my hands like that I'm asking why are you arresting me. My wife was crying, she was already crying. They put more trauma when it was not needed.
Then he dragged me all the way to the sidewalk and he said I am under arrest. I was on the ground for a good 7-8 minutes before they got me up. They waited for another cop to come. So when the cop arrived, there they got me up and the handcuffs were tight. I was crying. My hands are hurting. My back is hurting. My neck, everything. Just having the handcuffs on my back — I had a bruise, I had to go to the hospital and wear a cast for a couple weeks because I didn’t have blood circulation. I requested if they could release …
Sifa
They didn’t care about that. All they cared about was to get his name. That’s all they cared about. Even the officer — when they walked in — he was not even nice at all. Using F-words all the time and telling him to shut up. And even when the officer placed him in the car he slammed the door and you can hear him say “fucking idiot.” And then you hear police laughing.
Jean-Claude
For them it’s a normal routine. They go and aggress citizens. For them it’s funny because they just mess up someone’s day. For them, they’ll go and sleep and you’re still thinking about it in your head.
Sifa
I said, “I have kids at home and they’re waiting for me. [Jean-Claude] left home telling them I’m coming back.” The officer said, “you are not going home to them, you are going to jail.” He very proudly said that.
Oumar
What were your perceptions of police throughout your time in Alberta and Edmonton. What did you think of police? Have you had any other interactions with them before? What role did they play in your life?
Sifa
Before the accident happened, I’ve never had any problem with police. Back home we have terrible police, and then coming here seeing police as people who were supposed to serve and protest us — that’s how I’ve seen them my whole life being here until that accident. The way I see them is not the same way I could imagine.
Jean-Claude
When we immigrated to Quebec I was still young, I believe 13 years old. So all my experience was pretty much here in Canada. I remember when I was back in Quebec, after school doing my homework in the library, two police officers just standing at the library told me “go back to your country, and a nigger name.” So for me it was fear and I didn’t respond to anything. I keep just walking. I knew they were looking for something. I just keep walking. Then after that, we saw people getting arrested and becoming brutalized by police. And for me it has been going around seeing friends arrested for no reason — they don’t have the time to talk. Just getting answers like “why I am getting arrested?”
You are trying to talk to police, tell them your cause, and they don’t want to listen. They want to show you that you are just nothing. So this is what I experience all my life. So for me, I try to keep my distance with police because I knew it could be just like this and they’ll ruin my life for no reason. What happened to me is stuff I used to see on the TV, and even today when I look at my family I’m a lucky person that I am still here. If my health issues were really bad, I wouldn’t be here today talking. I go home and think about all the guys that said “I can’t breathe” — they are not with us today. So it was just a lucky day for myself.
Oumar
When he was arrested, Jean-Claude was especially confused by how aggressive the officers who arrested him were. Because the initial two reactions he had with police at the scene didn’t bring up any problems at all.
Jean-Claude
So you are charging me for this. Then why didn’t I have any problems with the other officers that were already the scene? I did everything peacefully, and why did you come to me asking me to leave the scene with many people standing there? And those answers — until today — like “why me?” [Sifa] was crying, she needed the ambulance, but they left her on the scene and came to grab me. They put me in jail, I didn’t even last 10-15 minutes. And I saw the supervisor walk by and he said I am free to go.
I didn’t want to sign anything and they said “if you don’t want to sign this, we’re going to keep you here.” Usually, they put you there and they want you to suffer. They knew there was no reason. They had to try and build evidence that I was drunk, that I was resisting, pushing. When I look at my charges and all that — he charged me one charge twice. So all the charges they are saying I was doing on the scene, why are they not on paper? The guy did not have enough proof against me so they went and tried to build something. Cops took me away while she was still on the scene. And she was the one who called the cops the first time for help. They came and put handcuffs on me, threatened my friend to leave, and left her on the scene.
Sifa
And the officer came and said make a statement but I was in shock and I told him I can’t now because I was in shock. He then said “fine, if you don’t give a statement I will give you a ticket.”
Jean-Claude
And he then gave the ticket. She got a careless driving ticket. She was shaking. That was the attitude cops had from the beginning. She was traumatized about all this and she said “I cannot write a statement.” The cop’s not even trying to be human. After that, she found out she had 24 hours to fill out the statement. I don’t know why he was forcing that — she was already traumatized but the cops didn’t care.
A statement was made that — after all this happened, the kneeling on me — asking her to do a statement. How do you want someone to focus and write a statement like that? What kind of human being are you?
Oumar
Jean-Claude was arrested and charged with obstructing a peace officer and resisting arrest. Sifa filed a complaint letter about how she and her husband were treated by police that day. The police received her letter on August 1, 2018. She got a response from police 14 months later on November 7, 2019.
The complaint investigator interviewed Sifa, Jean-Claude’s friend who drove him to the accident, two emergency medical services workers at the scene, and two officers who arrested Jean-Claude. The investigator did not interview Jean-Claude. This is because he refused to go on the record without talking to his lawyer first. Jean-Claude chose not to be interviewed because what he said in that interview wouldn’t necessarily be a privileged statement. Anything that he said could have be used against him in court by the police for the two charges he was facing after his arrest.
In her letter to the police, Sifa complained that the two officers used excessive force during the incident. The other driver in the incident told the police that one of the officers on the scene said it looked like Jean-Claude was drunk. One of the emergency medical services staff said the officers behaviour towards Sifa was abrasive, intimidating and uncalled for. The other EMS worker told the police that she felt the whole thing was handled too quickly and could have been handled differently.
Now here’s what the officers who arrested Jean-Claude said to the investigator. They said an officer approached Jean-Caude with a pen in hand and a notebook open to ask for his name and to where he was sitting in the car. What happened next is very different from what Sifa and Jean-Claude remember happening. The officer claims that when he asked Jean-Claude that question that he literally lost his mind and said “You can’t fucking ask me that. You don’t talk to me like that.” He told the investigator that he has never seen anything like that in all his years of policing.
One officer also claimed that he noticed Jean-Claude’s breath smell like alcohol and that he appeared intoxicated. The officer said he asked Jean-Claude 5 times to move away from the scene but says that Jean-Claude continued to yell at him. The officer allegedly tried again to lead him away until Jean-Claude pushed him away and allegedly positioned himself in a fighting stance with his cellphone in one hand and the other in a clenched fist. The officer said he thought Jean-Claude was going to punch him.
This was enough for the officers to arrest him for obstructing them. Both officers claim that Jean-Claude chose to escalate the situation and they resolved it with least amount of force they could have used. The only real outcome of the police investigation was an official warning issued to one of the officers for excessive swearing. Every other complaint was dismissed. Both of the charges against Jean-Claude were dropped by police in February 2019.
To hear how Jean-Claude and Sifa’s situation fits within the larger system of policing and the law, I explained the situation to Tom Engel. Tom is the Chair of the Edmonton Criminal Trial Lawyers Association Policing Subcommittee.
Oumar
He was kind of struggling, telling them “I can’t breathe, I’m uncomfortable.”
Tom
That knee-on-the-neck thing, I hear about that over the years so often. A knee on the head. That is not a tactic that you will see over the years in use of force policies or training. But I hear about it all the time.
Oumar
When it comes to the police using force against citizens, not everything needs to be documented. But it usually is in most cases that go above handcuffing someone, and especially in a situation like Jean-Claude’s arrest. When the police use force like that, they are required to create what is called a Control Tactics Report. Tom explained to me what those documents entail in more detail.
Tom
The Control Tactics Report goes to the use of force supervisor in the EPS. What happens after that, I have no idea. There’s supposed to be an early warning system as well. Where they are supposed to keep track of an unusual number of Control Tactics Reports coming from an officer. They are supposed to start looking at the officer. Seeing and intervening and seeing what is going on here. Maybe needs retraining.
And anytime there is a category 2 use of force they have to get on the radio and declare category 2 use of force and a supervisor has to come to the scene. They’re supposed to review the force but the problem is that they don’t ever go talk to the subject of the force. So what happened, right? They just talk to the cops on the scene, “yeah everything is good,” and they go write up a little report.
So there is a problem there in oversight. There are all these oversight mechanisms which are a good idea but not effective. Then what happens is the punishment for excessive use of force are completely inadequate. You take the case of Mike Waslynshyn, the former chief’s son. In a notorious case Fryingpan, A 17 year old Indigenous kid gets tasered and beaten up by this guy. A provincial youth court judge finds cruel and unusual treatment. It goes to a disciplinary hearing and he is found guilty. He wasn’t fired. He should have been fired.
And then only a few years later, he is on Whyte ave off duty, drunk. Sees a guy on crunches on the other side of the street and starts mocking the guy, calling him a cripple. He goes and attacks him. Found guilty criminally and acquires a criminal record, the judge won’t give him a discharge. And then he goes to a disciplinary hearing — he doesn't get fired!
Oumar
The lack of punishment does not only extend to external police punishment decisions. The system of accountability in Alberta has set a precedent for rarely severely punishing guilty police officers.
Tom
There are many examples of cases in the EPS where serious misconduct has been proven and the officer is not fired. And the way the law is — if you look at all the precedents — the fact of the matter is that the law supports not firing. The legal precedence in disciplinary cases. That’s got to change. People have to get fired. And the other problem is it takes years to fire a cop. You see in the United States in Minneapolis what happened? “You’re fired.” And in another place, the mayor did the firing.
That cannot happen with the Police Act or the RCMP Act. You have to go through this long, drawn out process where cops remain on active duty with pay or suspended with pay. It’s like a paid vacation. And then eventually maybe resign on the eve of the disciplinary hearing. Justice delayed is justice denied.
Oumar
The judicial system in Alberta also heavily favours the police in most cases.
Tom
The lowest damages in the country for police abuse are in Alberta. I remember there was one particular case where this Native woman was down on the ground prone, and a cop went up and booted her in the head. The judge found the cop civilly liable and gave the punitive damages of $5000. You know, how does that punish the police, how does that deter the police?
And by the way when you get damage award against the EPS, it’s the city of Edmonton that pays. The officer doesn’t pay. Nothing is done to that officer. Unless you’ve made a Police Act complaint to hold the officer personally liable, nothing will happen to that officer as a result of that civil judgement.
And then you can’t go to small claims court (the provincial government) for some strange reason. We look back on hansard on this to see why in small claim court which has damages up to $50,000 which is way more than you usually get going to Queens Bench for a civil suit — why have they excluded police officers from liability? Why have they excluded that from provincial court jurisdiction?
There was no reason given when that bill was passed. It was just like “here it is. Everybody in favour? Yeah sure no problem.” And we asked governments to change that. Nothing happens, and the obvious reason is to make it more difficult to hold police officers accountable civilly in damages. That’s plain as day. There is no other reason.
If I’m walking down Whyte ave and I punch a cop and break his jaw then, that cop can sue me in small claims court. If the cop is walking down Whyte ave, sees me, and breaks my jaw then I can’t go to small claims court. I have to go to Queen’s Bench, which means you basically have to get a lawyer. So it’s an inequity that has to be addressed.
Jean-Claude
Me being taken away means I lose my job. I don’t have that bread to bring on the table for my kids so I’m putting my family in a hard situation that none of the kids want to end up. I have five kids myself and I cannot allow myself to do stupid stuff and be away from my kids.
So I was trying to get justice for that time to clear my name. Because I know they charge me and the first lawyer, it was in this office. He could see I was shaking and crying. I didn’t know what was happening. The same film was sent to a lawyer in Montreal and said this is ridiculous. We don’t know how to start filing this stuff. We are just a citizens, but when stuff like this happen you don’t have the contact. You are trying to fight to clear your name and not to go to jail.
So they did file a complaint to the cops and we walked to the station downtown to get information, but help was not there. They said call this person and all that. My belief is that anyone who goes through that, when they walk in a police station you want to feel like somebody is listening to you. You call this number and this number and there is no call back in a couple days. You give up. You cannot win against cops.
That’s what we saw. How many people get brutalized by cops. My little brother, 16 years old, came home one day and we couldn’t recognize his face. We said “what happened?” and he said he was beaten up by cops. As a Black man I keep the silence and keep that inside of us. Killing myself and seeing it as normal. But it’s not normal, and at the end of the day you end up with it affecting you. For what they think is normal, but for me it is going there in anger because there is nobody there to talk to.
Oumar
When George Floyd was murdered and the video of his killing was released Sifa decided to share the video of Jean-Claude’s arrest on Facebook for the very first time. The video was widely shared and gained media attention in Edmonton.
Jean-Claude
While she posted the video I was just working. She has her own way to think. I was just working trying to see the light at the end of this. And when I see the George Floyd thing, I broke down. Usually I am not emotional. When I saw that video and asked other people if they saw the video, the first thing I said is “you don’t know the pain.” That’s what I said to [Sifa]. You don’t know the pain. I think I do understand exactly how he died. Being in the same position, and it’s not comfortable.
As I try to live day by day and try to keep peace in the way regular people do every day. I was just off that day. One hour and half, not even at work trying to help someone. For them, they see me being there as threatening. They say I pushed the officer. All that crap they say and ruin your name. And it costs you — you have to fight for your right and stuff like that.
Having the name clear is enough for me. And I didn’t have the peace inside of me, but I knew I had the freedom to be with my kids.
Oumar
What do you want to see happen with the Edmonton Police? What are your dreams when it comes to making sure this doesn’t happen to anyone else but also that you get justice for what was done to you?
Sifa
I hope I will never have to experience it again. I have two sons. With my sons, with my husband as well. Even every Black person out there. I am not going to say it’s just Black, there are also different people from here that have been mistreated as well. But I hope the police — when we call 9-1-1, we expect for them to come help us. Not to make more trouble for us. Because it’s already too much.
Oumar
Jean-Claude told me that he hopes that police will get more training and consider using body cameras. Thank you for listening to today's episode of Is This For Real? I want to thank Jean-Claude and Sifa for sharing their stories with me. Thank you to everyone who supported this show on Patreon or otherwise. We wouldn’t be able to do this without you. If you have any questions, comments, or concerns then you can reach me at oumar@isthisforreal.ca. Thank you again for listening, and we will see you in August.
Jean-Claude
They are there to serve the public. To work with the public and not to criminalize young Black and Native people. We are the same, we are all the same people.